Talk:Hip hop music
Merge with We Trying to Stay Alive Something only seen in closed captions is not in itself canon. At best this should be an unreferenced material article, but I think it being turned into a background note at the song that samples it is the better solution. -- Capricorn (talk) 21:26, October 30, 2017 (UTC) :No, this isn't the first time hip hop has been in Star Trek: remember Public Enemy in Beyond? --Alientraveller (talk) 01:26, October 31, 2017 (UTC) I think you're misunderstanding the issue: for this article to exist the term needs to have been used, just music that could be described as hip hop isn't enough. For all we know in the 23rd century Public Enemy is considered classical music just like the Beasty Boys. -- Capricorn (talk) 03:16, October 31, 2017 (UTC) Following up from that last note, I've removed your addition of the Beasty Boys because it was never identified as Hip Hop but explicitly identified as a different genre. I've preserved the paragraph below: :In the alternate reality, was fond of the hip hop group Beastie Boys. ( , , ) That being said, with the work you've put into this I guess there might be more of a case for not merging but turning this into an unreferenced material article instead. -- Capricorn (talk) 06:38, November 1, 2017 (UTC) ::I can't think of an example off the top of my head, but I'm fairly certain that MA has used closed captions as canon before, it's similar to using material from the scripts right? --Noah Tall (talk) 08:10, November 1, 2017 (UTC) I'm guessing maybe you're confusing the term "canon" with sources we can use to establish spelling, because material that's only from scripts has never been considered canon. (you might want to read up on these pages). But more to the point, I've gone ahead and changed this into a realworld article, which I think is a course of action in line with all that's said here. In light of this change, I also thought it ok to remove the merge tag. -- Capricorn (talk) 22:06, November 18, 2017 (UTC) ::Actually I was referring to naming articles. For example, ghetto blaster is what the script referred to the boombox in Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home, we all know it's a boombox and ghetto blaster isn't that commonly used, but that's what we named it because of the script. But it was never mentioned in dialogue, only writing. Same with pages like express lift, news machine, Phlox etc. All of those were never named in dialogue, just the script. I understand that the script itself is not canon, but there are numerous examples on this wiki that we use them for naming articles. Hip hop may not have been mentioned in dialogue, but it could be heard, and it was in writing.--Noah Tall (talk) 15:06, December 21, 2017 (UTC) :::Note that, in 1986, "Ghetto Blaster" was the common name for those devices... not "Boombox". -- sulfur (talk) 15:09, December 21, 2017 (UTC) ::Understood, I was mainly just saying that we use the scripts for naming purposes, and since hip hop music could be heard, yet not mentioned in dialogue, but was mentioned in writing, then I don't see why it can't have it's own in-universe page.--Noah Tall (talk) 15:14, December 21, 2017 (UTC) Because we don't need to. We heard a specific music piece and there's a need to document it, but the song was not named in the episode. So, we have this convention that we can use real world knowledge (doesn't even have to be in the script) to name stuff that we clearly know the name of, in order to create a place to file the info under. But there's no such need or justification to create articles on any of the other tags we might feel apply to it. This song doesn't warrant an article on hip hop in the same way that for example spotting Nixon doesn't warrant us having an article on Quakers even though technically we did spot a quaker on-screen. -- Capricorn (talk) 21:18, December 22, 2017 (UTC) So let me make sure I'm understanding you. You mean that since it was never established that the songs by Public Enemy and Beastie Boys were never referred to as hip hop, that they should't be noted as such? If that's the case, when I originally created this article I never cited those artists anyway, only Wyclef Jean, as he was referred to in writing as hip hop. The others were never classified as such, so I didn't. That stuff was added later. --Noah Tall (talk) 18:42, December 24, 2017 (UTC)